Cliff Wilson Natural Bodybuilder and Physique Coach Interview

Cliff Wilson Natural Bodybuilder and Physique Coach Interview
  • Age:

  • Height:

    185cm (6'1)
  • Chosen Sport:

  • Years Training:

  • Off-Season Weight:

    92kg (204lb)
  • Competition Weight:

    78kg (173lb)
  • Training Information:

    Can you please describe your general training style/split? How does it change from off-season to pre-contest?

    My training split changes fairly often but I would describe my training style as high frequency and high volume by most people’s standards and the intensity is cycled over time. Of course, every aspect of my training is periodized so there are phases where volume and frequency will rise and fall as well. I incorporate a variety of rep ranges as well.

    Generally my training doesn’t change drastically from offseason to precontest. The same methods and training that will help you build muscle during the offseason will be the methods and training that allow you to retain muscle during pre contest.

    What is your typical training split?

    My current training split is a form of Power Block Periodization that has been tailored to my own needs. Here is an example of this past week below.

    Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday
    Powerlifting/ Upper Body Chest/ Triceps Back/ Biceps Rest Day Legs/ Shoulders Chest/ Triceps Rest Day
    Powerlifting/ Upper Body
    Squats  4 Sets x 5,3,1, AMRAP (As many reps possible)
    Decline Bench Press

    6 Sets x 5,5,3,3,1, AMRAP (As many reps possible)

    Hammer Chest Press

    4 Sets x 4-6 Reps

    Weighted Pull Ups

    3 Sets x 4-6 Reps

    Dumbbell Curl

    4 Sets x 4-6 Reps

    Skull Crushers 3 Sets x 4-6
    Dumbbell Lateral Raise 3 Sets x 4-6
    Chest/ Triceps
    Dumbbell Bench Press

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Cable Decline Press

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Cable Fly

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Pec Dec

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Machine Incline Press

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Cable Pushdown

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Overhead Tricep Extension

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Back/ Biceps

    Hammer Strength Lat Pulldown

    4 Sets x 10-15
    Cable Row

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Barbell Row

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Deadlifts 2 Sets x 10-15
    Cable Lat Pulldown 3 Sets x 10-15
    Hammer Curl

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Barbell Curl

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Machine Preacher Curl

    4 Sets x 10-15

    High Cable V-bar Curl

    4 Sets x 10-15

    Legs/ Shoulders

    2 Sets x 10-15

    Leg Press 2 Sets x 10-15
    Leg Curl 2 Sets x 10-15
    Romanian Deadlift

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Leg Extension

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Barbell Hip Thrust

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Dumbbell Lateral Rais

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Lying Dumbbell Lateral

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Dumbbell Overhead Press

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Reverse Pec Dec

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Bent Cable Lateral

    3 Sets x 10-15

    Chest / Triceps
    DB Bench Press 4 Sets x 15-30
    Nautilus Machine Press 4 Sets x 15-30
    Hammer Machine Press 4 Sets x 15-30
    Dumbbell Fly

    4 Sets x 15-30

    Barbell Incline Press

    4 Sets x 15-30

    Dumbbell Kickback

    4 Sets x 15-30

    Through your own experience of bringing up your upper body to match your leg development, what are your general recommendations for anyone trying to improve ‘lagging’ muscle groups? Can you offer some specific protocols you used to bring up your upper body?

    The needs for everyone will differ from person to person. However, for those that are looking to bring up weaker body parts the greatest tools at their disposal are volume and frequency. If someone has a lagging body part then the best way to bring up that area is to train it with more volume and train it more often. Obviously there is a limit to how much work someone can do but more work for a given area will lead to increased growth.

    What type of cardio do you personally find most effective when trying to lose body fat? Do you stick to the same types or do you like variety with your cardio?

    When it comes to fat loss the most effective form of cardio research has definitely shown that HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) is the most effective if you are looking to hold on to as much muscle as possible. However, there is a limit to how much it can be used. Much the same way that different people can tolerate different levels of training intensity and volume, different people will tolerate varying amounts of HIIT.

    For some of my clients during their contest prep I can work them up to 7 days of HIIT per week and they feel fine. For others they can’t tolerate more than a few days of HIIT per week. I look for the amount of HIIT that is tolerable for each particular person and then I fill in the rest of their cardio needs with MISS (Moderate Intensity Steady State) cardio. For some the longer duration cardio will allow them to not be overly taxed and allow them to continue losing fat.

    For myself personally, I have found that 2-3 days per week of HIIT will usually be about my max during contest prep. If I push it much more than that then my weight training begins to suffer greatly.

    How do you typically introduce cardio for clients? What are some common pitfalls you see with competitors who have managed their own cardio in the past, as compared to when you work with them?

    This is a great question. I commonly see people mess this up. The biggest issue is that people are simply too aggressive with their cardio increases. Often I see people begin their diet or contest preparation and they will immediately go from doing zero cardio to doing 4-6 cardio sessions per week. This is just too much too fast.

    It is important to remember that cardiovascular training, while great for speeding up fat loss, is an extremely catabolic activity. The goal should be to see how much fat you can lose while doing as little cardio as possible. The best way to introduce cardio is very slowly. Start by adding only one session and work your way up from there. It is not uncommon for me to increase my clients cardio by only 6 minutes for the ENTIRE WEEK when they are prepping for a show. Slow and steady is the best approach. Drastic approaches will often lead to poor results.

    In general what training programs/ methodologies do you recommend for your clients? What is your view on higher frequency training as opposed to the traditional bodybuilding split?

    I can’t say that I there is any single training style that is going to work for everyone. When I work with my clients I just try to look for the plan that will suit their needs. In general though I prefer non linear periodization programs over linear periodization as these have been proven to be more effective. This involves training each body part with variety of rep ranges throughout the week. Different rep ranges tax the neuromuscular system differently and call upon different energy systems. Following a linear periodization program can lead to detraining of a particular rep range while you focus is placed elsewhere.

    I also am a firm believer in higher frequency training. Traditional bodybuilding splits usually call for each body part to be trained only once per week. For natural lifters in particular this is a big mistake. After a muscle group is trained muscle protein synthesis increases for only about 24-48 hours. Typically protein synthesis tops off around 24 hours after training and drops off quickly thereafter. Usually muscle protein synthesis levels are back to baseline around 36 hours post training. So this means if someone is training a body part only once per week then there are roughly 5-5 ½ days where the muscle is simply not growing at all. Obviously this is not ideal. Minimum each body part should be trained twice per week.

    Check out Cliff's complete training article How you SHOULD Train.

    How, if at all, do these programs/ methodologies alter for yourself or clients that are in a competition prep diet? Especially towards the final few weeks, how do they keep the intensity up as they get closer to the stage?

    Typically I will keep training relatively the same for clients as they get close to a show. Competitors have a tendency to start training more often or training harder as a show nears but with calories so low this is never a good idea. Most likely the body will not be able to keep up with the demands being placed on it. The same training that allows someone to build muscle optimally in the offseason is the same training that will allow them to retain muscle when dieting.

    Do you feel ‘intensity’ techniques still have their place in bodybuilding, or should a competitor solely focus on progressive overload when training for maximum muscle size and strength?

    I do feel that intensity techniques such as drop sets, super sets, and forced reps have a place in a bodybuilding program. These methods seem to have reduced popularity as of late but they are still useful. It really comes down to how someone uses them. I think we all know those guys that use forced reps and drop sets on every set during training. This overuse is something that will quickly lead to overtraining and just become a detriment. These methods need to be used in moderation.

    Overload still the best way to induce growth over the long haul, but the main factor that determines whether or not a muscle will grow is increased volume of work. This means that over the course of time a muscle has to work more than it has previously been made to work. So increasing the weight on the bar, adding more sets, or more reps will all work. Adding intensity techniques can be a great way to increase total volume of work in the short term. So it definitely has a place.


  • Dieting/Supplementation Information:

    What nutritional strategy have you found works best for yourself in achieving your own bodybuilding goals (discuss macronutrients, timing, food source)? Have you experimented with anything as of late that you recognised had a positive effect on your training, physique or psychological state?

    For myself I really don’t do anything crazy. I am one of the lucky ones that can handle a lot of food in the offseason. It is not uncommon for my carbohydrate intake to exceed 600 grams per day in the offseason. My current macros are actually 290 protein, 595 carbohydrate, 90 fat. I can still remain relatively lean on these numbers.

    For me (and everyone else really) it is just really important to remain consistent with food intake in the offseason. I know that in my early years I would stuff my face and really overeat for periods of time in an effort to gain size. This would just have me end up getting chubby and needing to diet after only a month or two of gaining. A much slower approach is best where I slowly bring food up. This makes it so that I don’t get too heavy and then can have up to a solid year of gaining at a time without having to reduce calories. Consistency is key

    As for timing, I generally prefer to have my biggest meals before training and before bed. A good sized meal before training ensures ample energy to train hard so that is a no brainer. Most people think you shouldn’t eat much before bed because of the myth that excess carbs/calories before bed will be more likely turned into fat. This just isn’t true. In fact, I find that a large meal before bed allows for better quality sleep. Better sleep will more likely allow for better recovery and better metabolic functioning. I actually think that to a very small degree larger meals at night can help people stay leaner.

    What changes do you typically make/ recommend when transitioning a competitor from an off-season to a pre-contest diet? Can you give a general ‘case-study’ of an athlete and their nutritional strategy over the course of their contest prep?

    Sure thing. I will say that each case is pretty unique but there are certain principles that I follow with each client that I coach. I’ll break this down into steps

    First thing first, I need to ensure that this person has enough time to lose the fat required to do a show. Often I have someone come to me and they wish to do a show that is 20 weeks away. However they are 18-19 kg over their previous show weight. This means that they would need to lose nearly a full kg per week just to be ready. This pace is not reasonable and will likely lead to muscle loss because it is just too fast. The faster the weight is lost, the greater amount of muscle mass will be lost. I usually make sure that we have enough time to keep a pace of 0.4-0.5 kg per week. For women I usually aim for a rate of 0.3 kg per week.

    Once appropriate timing has been established I make a small calorie reduction. While it is pretty common for people to say that you should cut 500 kcals when dieting I keep my cuts much smaller. For men I typically look to cut only 100-150 calories to start. For women only about 80-120 calories.

    I’ll usually reassess after a week and see how much weight we have lost. If we lose at the rate that we need to keep pace then I keep the plan the same. If we don’t lose fast enough or we don’t lose at all then I will make another cut for the following week.

    I essentially repeat this process throughout the duration of the prep making sure to keep the pace that we need to be ready by show day.

    To determine if calories are cut from protein, carbs, or fat this just depends on the individual and their body type.

    Whether it be yourself or clients what recommendations do you make in regards to curbing hunger or satisfying cravings during those ‘deep’ phases of contest preparation?

    We have all been there before. There are those times during prep when you feel like you could chew your own arm off because you are so hungry. Here are some of the things that can really help.

    High volume foods- while it is nice to think of eating pop tarts all prep, they pack a lot of calories in a small amount of food. Sticking with more foods like vegetables and higher fiber grains will often fill up your stomach allowing you to feel fuller.

    Diet Soda- These has zero calories and can really give you the taste you are craving.

    Gum- Same as above, it often has very few calories and can satisfy taste cravings.

    Beyond these few things I really think it just comes down to willpower. Keep your goals in mind and remember why you are doing this when things get tough. Sometimes remembering what your are working towards can help get you through cravings.

    Typically how long do you like to work with a client before taking them through a contest prep? How do you assess if an individual is actually ready to step on stage and if they are not ready how do you communicate this and shift their focus?

    The amount of time I need to work with someone before a show is completely determined by how much fat they need to lose, and how much food they are currently eating. As I mentioned, the rate of loss is everything. If someone only needs to lose 10-12 pounds then the amount of time I will need to work with them will be considerably less than if someone needs to lose 30-40 lbs.

    On this same note the more food someone is eating, less time we will likely need for prep. All too often someone will come to me looking to start a contest prep and they are eating only 1600 calories (for men) or 1200 calories (for women). What they don’t understand is that since they are already eating so little there is not much I can do to induce fat loss. I can’t cut calories much further than what they already are. So in that case someone may need a period of what I call metabolic rehab where we essentially increase their food slowly so they can begin losing fat again.

    The starting point of someone’s prep is extremely important. It doesn’t matter if you execute all the right moves during a prep, if you don’t give yourself enough time to prepare then you still won’t be ready. The process simply cannot be rushed.

    In the event that someone is can’t be ready for the show they are aiming for I will simply lay out the facts. At that point it is up to them to take it or leave it. In the past calendar year I have turned away well over 100 potential clients because they wanted to compete sooner than they could be ready. For me, I will never compromise how someone looks on stage just because we rushed it. If I won’t settle, the competitors shouldn’t want to either.

    We understand you are a representative of Core Nutritionals, can you describe why you chose to support their products? What are your 3 favourite supplements, why you chose to recommend these to clients to aid in their physique goals?

    I am with Core Nutritionals. I have been sponsored by them since 2012 and they were really one of the first companies to give me a chance when I was still newer to the sport. Supporting Core is honestly a no brainer for me. Their products are all research backed, they use no proprietary blends, and they share a similar vision to myself of what proper supplementation is all about. Too many supplement companies put out useless products for quick profit rather and this is the opposite of what Core is all about.

    As a physique coach it is really important to me that I work with a company that I can recommend their products without sacrificing my integrity. With Core I don’t have to recommend products that I know don’t work because all of their products are proven. As I said, my integrity is extremely important to me so I would only want to recommend products I actually believe in. Working with Core allows me to do this.

    As for my 3 favorite supplements I would say they are:

    1. 1. Core Fury Extreme
    2. 2. Core ABC
    3. 3. Core PRO

    I use the entire line of Core Nutritionals products but these are my three favourites

    What Is Your Opinion On IIFYM v Clean Eating? Which Approaches Have You Used personally and with clients? Have You Notice Any Dramatic Changes In Physique Using One Or The Other?

    For myself and my clients I use what I call “responsible IIFYM”. This approach really lies somewhere in the middle of clean eating and IIFYM. There is a current trend with the IIFYM advocates where they eat too much junk food. With my clients I use the word “responsible” because you have to exercise responsibility to properly execute an effective IIFYM plan.

    There really is nothing magical or special about any particular foods. It really comes down to a matter of nutrients and ensuring you are getting enough. The body doesn’t recognize food, it only recognizes nutrients. This includes macronutrients, micronutrients, and all of the health benefits of various phytochemicals. Extreme IIFYM macros dieters are often deficient in certain nutrients because they consume far too much processed food with little to no nutritionals value. Extreme clean eaters are often deficient in certain nutrients because they don’t get enough variety in their diet. Eating chicken, brown rice, and broccoli for every meal is not going to give you a wide variety that is often needed to maximize nutrient intake.

    So my approach is that people should use whatever foods they enjoy to hit their macronutrient intake for the day. However, the majority of the foods they choose should be from a variety of types of foods. Fruits, vegetables, meats, dairy, grains, and even a little a little junk food from time to time is all good. This will take you a lot farther than a strict IIFYM or clean eating plan.

    What are your thoughts on Refeeds and/or Cheat Meals during a comp prep? Do you incorporate them yourself? Do you prefer more structured Refeeds or all out Cheat Meals? Which do you recommend for clients, if any?

    I never use cheat meals but I do use refeeds. I don’t use cheat meals for myself or clients because by definition cheat meals are unregulated. I am not someone that likes to leave anything to chance if I am able to control it. If I allow a client to have a cheat meal then the caloric intake for that meal can vary wildly from week to week and whether or not someone loses fat for the week could end up entirely dictated by how much they cheated. This doesn’t allow for proper planning and essentially takes control out of our hands.

    I do use controlled refeeds though. This is a great way to ensure that people keep their sanity during contest prep. Also, while the research is pretty clear that refeeds have little to do with long term fat loss, I am not 100% convinced. I have found repeatedly with myself as well as clients that the inclusion of refeeds seems to lead to greater fat loss. I can’t explain the mechanism that is causing it but I see it happen in application. It is possible that while the physiological impact is negligible that the physiological impact is great. This psychological impact could possibly lead to physiological changes through reduced stress and greater caloric output through just feeling “better” if you will.

    However it works, I am a firm believer in having a refeed at least once every week if not more.

    You are well recognized for your aggressive ‘rapid backload’ approach during a clients ‘peak’ week. Can you descrive how you came across it’s effectiveness, a general overview of how it works and how you assess whether it is suitable for a client?

    Sure thing. The RBL (rapid backload) peaking method is something that a lot of people have taken interest in. This is a peaking method that I developed and began using in early 2011. RBL peaking is used during the final week of a competitors contest prep in order to fill them out and bring them in at their sharpest conditioning.

    Traditional bodybuilding peaking methods usually call for a reduction of carbs, water, and sodium. I essentially do the exact opposite with many of my clients taking in 1,000-1,400 grams of carbs, 6,000-10,000mg of sodium, and 2-3 gallons of water the day before competition. This is typically set up by a deplete phase for 3-4 days prior to the load. These numbers often seem staggering to a lot of people but there really is a method to it and you have to be pretty precise with how you execute it.

    I started thinking this type of peaking method might be possible early on in my bodybuilding career. I had always been fascinated with the research on glycogen supercompensation. However typical 3 day deplete and 3 day load strategies were usually designed for endurance athletes that didn’t have to worry about spilling over. When bodybuilders try to use the typical 3 day deplete and 3 day load they will usually spillover at some point. I have thought this could possibly be due to the fact that while extra glycogen storage is created during the deplete portion, it may begin to diminish once carbs are reintroduced in abundance.

    So I began wondering if greater supercompensation may be possible if the entire load in done in a single day when the body is at it’s most depleted state. The precision during this single day load comes in for a great many reasons though. When attempting to load such a large number of carbs at once many things must be considered such as glycogen synthesis rates, how to enhance glucose assimilation with proper amounts of sodium, keeping sodium in balance with potassium, and keeping water high enough to store with glycogen.

    I worked on developing all of these factors for about a year before I really tested it. Once I gave it a trial run though it worked perfectly. I have used this as my primary peaking method for about 90% of my clients ever since.

    What is your approach to reverse dieting after a competition (how long for, what rate of calorie increase, introducing restricted foods)? Whether it be yourself or with a client; how do you prevent the dreaded “post comp blowout” and maximise the benefits of a reverse diet?

    Like most things, I am rather moderate when it comes to reverse dieting. I think some people go WAY too fast but I also think some people go WAY too slow. There is most definitely a middle ground. You can’t be afraid to put on a little body fat but you also shouldn’t let it accumulate at a dramatic rate either. Unfortunately I can’t give an exact rate that I add because it can vary wildly from person to person. Some people have what I would call higher metabolic adaption rates. This means that their metabolism will rebound more quickly once food is introduced. They can often bring food up quickly and not gain much fat at all.

    There are others however that seem to have a slower rate of metabolic adaptation. I often find that playing it a little more conservative with caloric increases is a better way to go. Usually I try to limit weight gain to no more than about a half kg per week.

    How long I reverse someone for just depends on where there “ideal offseason weight” lies. For each person this is also going to be a different spot. Some people feel and perform best a a leaner conditioning than others. My job with the athletes I work with is to determine what their ideal offseason weight is and get them there slowly.


  • Personal Information:

    What nutritional strategy have you found works best for yourself in achieving your own bodybuilding goals (discuss macronutrients, timing, food source)? Have you experimented with anything as of late that you recognised had a positive effect on your training, physique or psychological state?

    For myself I really don’t do anything crazy. I am one of the lucky ones that can handle a lot of food in the offseason. It is not uncommon for my carbohydrate intake to exceed 600 grams per day in the offseason. My current macros are actually 290 protein, 595 carbohydrate, 90 fat. I can still remain relatively lean on these numbers.

    Shortly after my first bodybuilding show I helped a few guys at my gym get ready for a show just for fun. They did extremely well and one of them won the whole thing. When they did well some people heard I was using a few methods that were different and I picked up more clients from that. Things just snowballed from there so I decided to attempt to make this a career. My business grew extremely quickly once I decided to really go for it. Only about 2 years after I prepped my first client I was able to make physique coaching my full time profession.

    For me personally I think there have been two main challenges. Early on in my career it was hard to get people to listen to me simply because I wasn’t very muscular. I haven’t been blessed with the greatest genetics so when I first started I was pretty small. Naturally people were less inclined to listen to someone that was smaller than them. However, as I have grown more muscular over the years, and had success with my clients, this isn’t an issue anymore.

    The other main challenge is simply figuring out a lot of the ins and outs of how to run a successful prep business. This is not a common job so there really isn’t a blueprint for how to operate it. As my business has increased learning to deal with the immense amount of emails and messages I get daily has been an adjustment. It’s definitely a good problem to have, but still something I have had to learn to account for.

    What is your vision for Team Wilson in the next 5 years? How do you plan on increasing your exposure internationally such as the Australian Market?

    First and foremost I plan to continue to work with clients on the level that I have been. I love working with physique competitors and I hope to be able to continue the success that I have had with coaching. In the past few years I have also began doing a lot more public speaking engagements. I now travel several times a year to speak in different parts of the US. My hope is to eventually make my way out to Australia and conduct some seminars as well.

    I recently also took on two new Team Wilson coaches, Andrew Pardue and James Perez. As I said, I am unfortunately not able to take on everyone that wants to work with me so I have taken on two coaches that utilize similar methods to my own. These are two educated, talented, and high character people that I look forward to helping grow over the next five years.

    As for increasing exposure in Australia, this interview will likely help quite a bit. haha! Honestly I hope to increase my exposure in Australia much the same way I grew in America and this is by putting clients on stage at their best and having them do well. I have already had some Australian clients win overall titles and have a few higher level IFBB competitors from Australia that will be hitting the stage that I think will catch some attention. I am a firm believer that if you do good work, people will notice.

    How long has your current off-season been since you last stepped on stage, what were your reasons for this? What do you hope to achieve physique wise when you step on stage next?

    I last stepped on stage 2 years ago and I am planning to take another year or so before stepping on stage again. So I will be hitting the stage at some point in 2016. I am a big advocate for long offseasons between contest seasons. This goes for myself as well as my clients. Too often people compete every single year but this isn’t good for making progress. You’ll often find that the people competing every single year look exactly the same every year. The reason for this is that for a natural lifter it is nearly impossible to put on noticeable muscle when you are spending 4-6 months of every year in a caloric deficit. To actually grow and grow substantially you need to spend long periods in a caloric surplus.

    The last time I competed I placed 2nd twice. Narrowly missing out on becoming a pro. The first time I lost was by two points, the second time I lose was a tie and then I lost the tie-breaker. Even though I was really close, I intend to have noticeable improvements the next time I step on stage in order to give myself the best opportunity to succeed.

    What other sports do you follow outside of bodybuilding?

    I’m a big fan of basketball. I played in both high school and college. my favorite team since I was young has been the San Antonio Spurs. It is funny, the people that know me from my basketball days always laugh and say they can’t believe I’m a bodybuilder now. People that know me now laugh and say they can’t picture me playing basketball.

    How do you manage the balance in your life, especially when dealing with so many clients? Who is your support team?

    This is something that is increasingly difficult. I have always been the type of person that immerses myself completely in whatever I am doing. Bodybuilding and my coaching career have been the same way. My wife Katie is without a doubt my biggest supporter. She has put up with me working insane amounts of hours over the past several years as I worked to grow our business and my own bodybuilding career.

    In the past year or so I have gotten much better at really taking time to really slow down and cut down the amount of hours I work. I closely monitor the number of clients I take on these days. I only work with a select group of people and am careful not to overextend myself. Katie is the person in my life that pushes me to be the best that I can be while working hard, but then also reminds me to take a moment to appreciate what we have. I don’t know where I would be without her.

    Can you describe the main differences between your Team Wilson Bodybuilding and Fitness Services. Do you only work exclusively with competitive bodybuilders?

    I work pretty much solely with bodybuilders but I do take on a handful on non competitors each year. Team Wilson Bodybuilding is mostly my aspect of our business as I handle primarily competitors. For the most part those that are looking to get into shape but not step on stage would be looking for Team Wilson Fitness. Team Wilson Fitness is primarily run by my wife Katie. She is extremely talented when it comes to working with non competitors and has a way of taking a lot of the same principles I use for competitors but making them more manageable for average people.So while I do take on a few non competitors each year, Katie is the one that specializes in this area.

    Is there anything else you would like to leave us with? (final thought)

    Definitely! There is one thing that I’d like to say to all of the younger lifters and competitors out there. When I first decided that I wanted to compete in bodybuilding I had some experienced competitors tell me that I was too small and that I didn't’ have a future in this sport. In fact, along the way I was pretty much constantly told I was wasting my time entirely when it came to bodybuilding. There were times when I really did wonder if I was going to make a fool of myself trying to compete in this game. Yet here I am now making my entire living off of the sport of bodybuilding, sponsored by what I consider to be the best supplement company, and am fortunate enough to have a great website like Massive Joes wanting to interview me. None of this would have happened if I had listened to others and quit early on.

    My point is that none of us can ever really know how good we can be at something or in what ways we can make an impact in this world until we actually try. My advice is that if you are really passionate about something then you should go after it with everything you’ve got. You might just surprise some people along the way with what you are capable of, and you may just surprise yourself as well.


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